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Old Nov 6, 17, 3:52 am - Wikipost
Cpi-Web Forums Thread Wiki: Upcoming changes to Flying Blue in 2018
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Last edit by: irishguy28
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Introduction

As you have been following the past thread, the Flying Blue programme will change as of 1 April 2018. In order to split the discussion from the earlier thread, we have created a new thread.

On 6 November Flying Blue has organised a press conference to inform the public about the changes to the programme. In addition, a mailing will be sent out to all members on the 6th and 7th of November and more information can be found on the designated website (link: https://explorefurther.flyingblue.com).

As an introduction, please find a summary of the changes below.

Please note that at the current time there is no difference expected to the benefits of the current tier.

Change 1: no more level miles, no more segments, but Experience Points

As of 1 April 2018 you will no longer earn level miles and segments per flight, but you will earn Experience Points (XP). The number of XP earned per flight depends on your cabin (multiplier times 2 for Premium Economy, 3 for business, 5 for La Premiere) and the type of flight (distinction between domestic, medium haul, long-haul 1/2/3).

For flights between 1 January – 31 March 2018 all earned level miles and segments will be converted into XP (1 segment = 7 XP; 1,000 level miles = 5 XP for members outside France). Please note that the highest conversion applies (it is not cumulative).

The number of XP required per tiers is:
- 100 for Silver;
- 180 for Gold;
- 300 for Platinum;
- 1,800 for Platinum Ultimate (in 2 years).

Please note that for current flyers who qualify on segments based on only intra-EU flights this could see an increase in the number of flights required. However, if you fly a mix if intra-EU and intercontinental (but qualify on segments), this will most likely see a reduction in the number of flights required to qualify.
For elite members, there is a roll-over of all XP above your tier threshold.

The rules for soft-landing have been extended. It is now no longer required to make at least 1 qualifying flight and in case you do not meet your threshold you will only drop one tier.

Change 2: number of miles earned dependent on fare paid (including fuel surcharge)

The number of award miles (for AF/KL/A5) earned is now depending on the fare paid (including fuel surcharge). Ivory members earn 4 miles per Euro, Silver 6, Gold 7 and Platinum 8.

Also earn award miles on AF/KL purchases (relating to seats, baggage and meals) according to the above schedule.

Earnings on partners remains as-is (based on fare class and distance flown).

Change 3: dynamic pricing of award tickets (on AF/KL/HV)

Another change will be that award tickets will have dynamic pricing, e.g. an award AMS-JFK could be more expensive than an award DUS-AMS-JFK. This is also in line with change 2, as flights from AMS are also more expensive than flights from DUS (you also earn more miles).

This also implies that we will see a difference in the number of miles required per flight. For example, an award from continental Europe to continental USA will currently set you back 25,000 miles for a one-way in economy. It does not matter if you fly to LAX or NYC, the number of miles is currently fixed. Under the new proposition, this will change. The cheaper flight (in this example: NYC) will see a slight reduction in the number of miles required, whilst LAX will see a slight increase in the number of miles required.

Furthermore, there will be a standard base level for the number of miles required per destination. As the standard revenue price increases, so does the number of award miles.

Change 4: status valid for 12 months (+ 3 months), personal membership year

FB will be moving away from membership year = calendar year (in case of upgrade of tier). Instead, FB will have an individual membership year. This means that after obtaining the higher tier, you will have 12 months to requalify. Benefit of this is that members are not bound by the calendar year (e.g. members who earn 20,000 level miles in a December of a given year and 20,000 level miles in January of the next year, do not have any benefit of their flights in case limited flights before/after).

I know some will feel that this is a significant downgrade compared to the current – at maximum – 27 months. Please note that based on FB information the majority of members (re)qualify in the last quarter of the year.

In addition, please note that for an Ivory member would like to go obtain Platinum in one year, as it will become more difficult, as (s)he will have to earn each threshold (so not 300 XP in the first year, but (100 + 180 + 300 = 580 XP). This is only applicable in the first year.

Change 5: changes to the co-branded American Express credit cards (FR/NL)

Currently you earn segments and level miles (on AF/KL purchases for Gold and Platinum card holders). This will change that you will receive additional XP when reaching your membership anniversary each year.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 12:21 am #406

Join Date: Dec 2014
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum; Marriott Gold; SPG Gold; Hilton Gold
Posts: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyteamEP View Post
As of now, on the calculator, for DL:
A, F, G and P are under Premium Eco
J, C, D, I and Z are under Business.
All others booking class are under Economy.

We will see in the next few days if they change something.
Actually I think the reason behind it is something else: Delta Premium Select (Premium Economy) is in fact using the same letters A, G, P for the fare class (but not F), just like domestic First Class (W for premium eco is only used on partners). They use W for Comfort+ (such as on domestic or TPAC flight) if booked on Delta, which is on par with Economy Comfort. See https://delta.com/content/www/en...ith-delta.html

Perhaps they haven't updated it yet for that, since the inaugural A350 flight was only a week ago. Kinda wonder what the Delta Premium Select mileage earnings are then (before 1st April 2018), that 175% for A & 200% for P isn't bad

Last edited by Sjondorn; Nov 7, 17 at 12:42 am
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Old Nov 7, 17, 12:28 am #407
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life Ultimate, UA Mileage plus, Le Club Accorhotels platinum
Posts: 10,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodory View Post
I wonder how many XP will be awarded for domestic segments in France:
- W (full fare for non-Abonné)
- S (full fare for Abonné)
- A (less expensive full fare for non-Abonné)
XPs do not depend on the fare paid. It is 2 XPs for domestic flights in Ecnomy. And for Abonnés there is a x2 applied.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 1:21 am #408

Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Programs: AB Topbonus Gold/OWS, EY Gold
Posts: 4,723
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuzziduzziman View Post
No, a 0% earning fare will generate 0 XP's.
Not necessarily. This is one of the more tricky implications that is currently being worked out. It'll depend on the IT.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 1:28 am #409

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,704
How will qualifying flight be defined?

I have a booking for next year below, before April 1,
will this be converted to 7 XP ?
What would happen if the booking is after April 1, would it still be qualifying?

You will earn:
150 Award Miles
150 Level Miles
0 XP
Hannibal Lecter is offline Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 17, 1:35 am #410

Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Silver
Posts: 86
I have to say that one of the most frustrating things about this is just getting the Flying Blue website to actually work!!!

Trying to work out some cost effective route etc that will keep me on Gold and the calculator times out most of the time.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 2:26 am #411

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_ View Post
Given the lack of options we have in France in terms of cards I will stick with it provided they keep on waiving my annual fee.
it was my case for the past 2 years but recently I have been spending much less than previous years and in Feb 2018, they won't waive mine
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Old Nov 7, 17, 2:51 am #412

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Flying Blue
Posts: 166
Question FB Amex and XPs

Quote:
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
Don't forget the FB Amex! You get 15 XP added to your account on the anniversary date if you have the Silver card, while it's 30 XP and 60 XP respectively for Gold and Platinum.
I can't find any info on the new FB Amex rules.

Currently Platinum card holders get 8 qualifying flights which would convert to 56XPs

What happens to AF ticket purchases which gave qualifying miles, will we get miles + XPs?
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Old Nov 7, 17, 3:04 am #413

Join Date: Mar 2016
Programs: Flying Blue Silver
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungus View Post
I can't find any info on the new FB Amex rules.

Currently Platinum card holders get 8 qualifying flights which would convert to 56XPs

What happens to AF ticket purchases which gave qualifying miles, will we get miles + XPs?
As a Gold AmEx holder I'd be interested to know too as it was one of the "perks" in getting more miles.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 3:05 am #414

Join Date: May 2011
Location: PAR/BIA
Programs: FB Platinum, BAEC Silver, Eurostar Carte Blanche
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodory View Post
I wonder how many XP will be awarded for domestic segments in France:
- W (full fare for non-Abonné)
- S (full fare for Abonné)
- A (less expensive full fare for non-Abonné)
Indeed, i wonder how much a Corsican Resident fare will earn as they earn equivalent miles to Abonné fares, though they are usually booked into the A bucket (Though i have been rebooked into W, S and J buckets when changing tickets!). I wouldn't be surprised to see the 2XP per leg be applied though so i might pick up a Abonné card next year.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 3:11 am #415

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Paris, France
Programs: FB Platinum, TK *G, SPG Platinum 100, Marriott Platinum, IHG Platinum, Accor Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter View Post
How will qualifying flight be defined?

I have a booking for next year below, before April 1,
will this be converted to 7 XP ?
What would happen if the booking is after April 1, would it still be qualifying?

You will earn:
150 Award Miles
150 Level Miles
0 XP
I don't understand. Flights operating before April 1st will make you earn towards the existing system, after April 1st on the new system.
Example:
  • On the old scheme, a CDG-LYS return trip booked at a final price of €101,59 (€41 before taxes) before april 1st will make you earn 250 award miles if you are Ivory, 250 level miles and 2 segments (0 segments if you live in France and are not an Abonné)
  • On the new scheme, the same trip will make you earn 164 miles (41 € * 4 as an Ivory member) and 4 XP (8 XP if you are an Abonné)
Regardless of when the flight was booked.
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Old Nov 7, 17, 3:20 am #416
Cpi-Web Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, AZ, BA Silver: EY
Posts: 21,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Lecter View Post
How will qualifying flight be defined?

I have a booking for next year below, before April 1,
will this be converted to 7 XP ?
What would happen if the booking is after April 1, would it still be qualifying?

You will earn:
150 Award Miles
150 Level Miles
0 XP
The concept of "qualifying flight" has not changed. Any flight which counts towards status qualification - in the old scheme, this meant earning Level Miles and counting as a Level Segment; in the new scheme, this means earning XPs - is a "qualifying flight".

Bear in mind, though, that while earning on partners has not been fully explained, to look at the single XP table published, and to therefore assume that every flight on every Skyteam partner will earn XPs is probably incorrect. Given that the "old" tables governing (Award) Miles earning on partners are still in effect, it would be very unusual if they gave you XPs on a Skyteam Partner flight that earns no Miles.

If you look on the FB minisite, and it was posted here in the early minutes of the announcement of the changes, your Level Miles and Level Segments will be converted to XPs on April 1st next. The conversion rate is published. They do not go back and "add" whatever the "correct" XP for each individual flight already taken in 2018 would have earned - instead, they use a fixed, and already-published, conversion rate from Level Miles to XP and from Level Segments to XP.

Whichever conversion gives you a higher XP number - whether it is your Level Miles or your Level Segments that give you the most XPs - that is the value that your account will be "started" for XPs with on April 2018. They don't add both - the Level Miles/Level Segments were two individual and separate means of qualification. There was no case in the old system where you could "add" both measures. So, the conversion to XPs will be done on both, and they give you whichever one of the old items gives you the higher number of XPs.

Last edited by irishguy28; Nov 7, 17 at 3:29 am
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Old Nov 7, 17, 3:26 am #417
Cpi-Web Evangelist

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: Gold: A3, AZ, BA Silver: EY
Posts: 21,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungus View Post
I can't find any info on the new FB Amex rules.

Currently Platinum card holders get 8 qualifying flights which would convert to 56XPs

What happens to AF ticket purchases which gave qualifying miles, will we get miles + XPs?
The only information is that which has been published on the new FB minisite.

You get 15, 30, or 60 XPs added to your FB account on each anniversary date of your Amex credit card. There is no mention of earning additional XPs when you spend money with AFKL, so the aspect of Level Mileage earning for spend on AFKL appears to have been discontinued. Earning of Miles (formerly, "Award Miles") on the basis of everyday spend continues; but whether the earning rates change, nobody yet knows.

Sit tight and wait for FB and/or Amex to send you details on the changes. Ringing either to enquire now is a waste of time - they don't know the details.
irishguy28 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 17, 3:27 am #418

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond, FB Plat
Posts: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by TographerE View Post
As a Gold AmEx holder I'd be interested to know too as it was one of the "perks" in getting more miles.
Apparently this is going away, I really hope this gets a slight revision/tweak as it makes the AFKL amex a lot less interesting
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Old Nov 7, 17, 3:27 am #419

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Paris
Programs: FB Platinum
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by TographerE View Post
As a Gold AmEx holder I'd be interested to know too as it was one of the "perks" in getting more miles.
just received a mail from Amex confirming what was said in the thread, i have the gold one so 30 XP but that s all. no XP on AF purchases as it was for status miles before. we ll just get Miles (equivalent of award miles).
that 's disappointing i have to say
newflyer27 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 17, 3:33 am #420

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: France
Programs: FB Silver - BA EC - Le Club Accor Hotels
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
The only information is that which has been published on the new FB minisite.

You get 15, 30, or 60 XPs added to your FB account on each anniversary date of your Amex credit card. There is no mention of earning additional XPs when you spend money with AFKL, so the aspect of Level Mileage earning for spend on AFKL appears to have been discontinued. Earning of Miles (formerly, "Award Miles") on the basis of everyday spend continues; but whether the earning rates change, nobody yet knows.

Sit tight and wait for FB and/or Amex to send you details on the changes. Ringing either to enquire now is a waste of time - they don't know the details.
I just got a mail from AMEX confirming the above.
Only miles on AF/KL expenses, no XPs.
Conversion rate remains the same (I have AMEX Gold): x1.5 for AF/KL expense and x1 for other expenses.
30 XPs on card anniversary.
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